Urine testing is bad enough and in my opinion is violation of our civil rights. Now the courts are going after the manufacturers of a device that one can use to protest this infringement of our civil rights. Will they never cease!!!!

Exactly what law are these people being prosecuted under?

Surely the offence is simply using the device to procure a clean urine test? If the urine tests are eventually seen to be ineffective, then perhaps Gilette (as makers of the rather good Mach 3 razor) will be next in court when then DA accuses them of helping people avoid hair tests for drug use.

And, to continue down this inevitable road of more and more abstract prosecution... is Excel a computer program which assists people in evading their due taxes?

...Are we to see deodorant manufacturers prosecuted for aiding and abetting smelly people to get lucky?

I should think that the majority of cosmetic surgeons, bespoke tailors, pantie-girdle peddlers and toupee makers are all running either for cover or a good attorney about now, too!

Judges and legislatures should have been the first to line up for the piss tests after Bush. Next should have been our childrens teachers and principles. Then, as we become Nazi america; we will be presumed guilty until we can prove innocence? Your papers and your piss please! Give me liberty or give me death.

I'm pretty anti-drug, but this is outrageous. What possible law can they be violating? When I hear about things like this I berate the fact that I did not become a lawyer. There should be a countersuit here.

What's next? Sue breast implant makers for promoting fraud?

This is unnethical from all perspectives.

The gov. has the right to ban a product whose only purpose is to serve an illicit activity. Like fully automatic firearms, bombmaking supplies, and....fake penises?
There is no law taking away a person's constitutional right to produce penises. Are the lawmakers jealous of the size of this particular penis?
Where is the the justice? Good thing we don't have bigger issues on the agenda. Bad accountants, mortgage crisis, RECESSION!!!

Plastic penises, If the guy wants to play with them all day, let him build them. If you build them, they will.....

And I thought this country was a democracy, not communist. Why should the government worry about such trivial things. People have been getting stoned and working safely for years. Why don't the government worry about all the illegals coming over taking up much needed medical care,food and shelters for the homeless we need for our own people.Why is it that an illegal can get instant medical care and food when a born American can not get any help. I say..CLOSE OUR BORDERS AND TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN PEOPLE AND SHIP ALL ILLEGALS OUT.Give the border patrol free fire on our borders.

Sorry - I love this conviction. I work in emergency medicine. I've seen it all. If people want to destroy their brains, livers, kidneys - their lives - so be it. But when they take others with them, that's where I draw the line.

We need drug testing and we need to eliminate methods to defeat these tests. I have seen nurses fired from hospitals and lose their licenses for taking the patient's morphine and letting the patient suffer. Do you want airline pilots, health care providers, bus drivers, air traffic controllers, police officers - and other persons who carry great responsibility to be able to get away with getting loaded at work?

If we can reliably test people for drugs, I will have fewer incidences of having to tell parents their daughter is permanently brain injured because of the loaded trucker in the next lane. Spend a day as an E.R. doctor - come to work with me - and you may feel differently.

I'm an E.R. doctor. The hospital can test me any time they like. If I'm ever YOUR doctor in an emergency, I'll wager you will be relieved to know I am absolutely stone-cold sober.

#7 you are an idiot.The only true Americans are the Indians,from whom every thing was stolen.So give the Indians guns and let them SHOOT the hell out of everybody else.

Drug testing is overly expensive, unnecesssary and antiquated. The problem is not whether people have gotten high on their day off or weekends, which is truly no ones business as long as they ar eof legal adult age and use responsibly. The issue is their ability to perform on the job to the standards that their job requires. There are testing methods to accomplish this task currently available. These test can be given each day before the workers shift begins. This would rule out anyone who is unable to perform in an appropriate way. It does not breach the employees rights, provieds maximum safety for everyone, and is just as efficient as drug tests in catching those that can't perform their jobs safely for any reason including medical conditions. The employee can't cheat in any way, and results are immediate. It's also less expensive for the employers! HARM REDUCTION WORKS PERFECTLY! We need to consider sane alternatives and stop the costly prosecution imprisonment, rabid dog of a machine that we have in place now.

Welcomes to the United States of Communism!

These drug tests are not designed to test people for short acting drugs. They are designed to catch people who used cannabis in the last month. Speed, herione and most other drugs are out of a persons system within 2 to 5 days. Most can do drugs on friday night and pass a drug test mon or tues morn. As a emergency room doctor one would expect #8 to know this. These tests are not only a travesty they are unfair as hey target cannabis use, one safest illegal drug out there, instead of the truly dangerous drugs like meth, herione or pain meds.

Jobs are for losers that couldn't make it on their own, you're only a slave if you make yourself one, and submit. Make your own decisions about how you live your life, and do what thou wants. Who needs their crappy urine test jobs anyways? Politicians, doctors, judges, and lawyers don't take urine tests, but someone stocking shelves at walmart has to. They're for the little people, they don't want you living the "high life."

Sooo whats the problem? I see piss test beaters all the time here in Oregon. Is it because its in Cali? Thats retarded.

The only use for a plastic penis is for illegal activity?

Gosh, someone ought to prosecute that lot out of Sex And The City then...

I am a work comp manager and have seen pretty much everything that can go on in this field of drug testing.

I was truly elated to see that action is being taken against companies such as this. After having read some of the comments being made that this is a violation of a persons rights what right is this? I don't see anything in the constitution that supports anyone's right to commit a crime or to pursue illegal activity? This goes for what someone does in their own home as well. There are NO laws that protect your right to commit a crime. Last I looked illegal drug use is a federal crime.

Urine drug testing is not used to single out marijuana users. It is used to identify any of the hard users. I can see why someone might think that marijuana users are being singled out since the main ingredient tested remains in the body for up to 30 days, but is that by design of the drug or the test used to detect it? Sounds pretty much like a metabolism thing to me not a design feature of the test itself.

Drug testing is necessary in our society to protect the people around the user. It is these innocent people whose rights are being infringed upon not the other way around. The user is the one creating an unsafe work environment, or the situation where a company can be liable for their actions. An employer has the obligation to all of their employees to provide a safe work environment. This is the law not an option. Illegal drug and alcohol use is one of the leading factors in work accidents.

I don't know about you, but I'd like to know that when it comes to my vehicle being serviced that the mechanic is tested so that I know he is paying attention to the detail of the job at hand, or that the Semi driver isn't stoned with a multi-ton vehicle driving 70 miles an hour behind me and my family. I want to know that the kid who is making my pizza is paying attention enough to rinse the pizza pans after cleaning them. I want to feel safe knowing that the police officer isn't stoned while carrying a weapon on the streets.

If the first step is drug testing and the second step is to go after companies that provide instruments to bypass the testing then I say go for it. If you are not using drugs then you have nothing to worry about. I train my staff to look for such items like this and new rules to the CFR regulating these collections have also included what collectors can and can not do to visually check for such devices. With the current rules even if the government had not gone after this company the poor guy who paid for one of these would not get away with using one.

My friends and I will be retired soon and are counting the days till we can have a bong fest and not worry about random piss tests. Retirement is going to be a party.

To
Lilly Anderson #8
and
Shaun #16

Anyone who chooses a job that has the potential for harming others, (drivers/pilots/doctors/cops/presidents/senators....)
should be totally straight and sober on the job.

Why apply this philosophy to those that choose a job where nobody can be harmed? Some stoners can write some pretty good software while in a condition you would describe as "totally whacked out of their minds". This software that they write either works or not. There is room for multiple cycles of testing. The guy who writes the best code wins and it does not matter what he smoked last weekend.

Stephen,
Why the double standard? truth is if there are people who can write "code" like that stoned just imagine the creativity and ability to perform their job while sober.

Might have less software problems then. Why should we settle for "Pretty good" when we can strive for "the Best". With the cost of software why should I as a consumer be forced to by a product that is flawed? A flawed product that now is costing more to the company that it was written for to have it fixed. Bugs that could have been addressed or taken care of had the programmer not been high when he wrote it. The cost of drug abuse also accounts for loss in industry as well. Thank you for pointing it out to us.

You say that they have jobs that don't endanger anyone. What if their "Code" isn't for a game, but for flight testing, or even if it is supposed to monitor a persons telemetry, or the Railroad/airline traffic. What if this code is used to initiate the control of your airbags?

Seems now that a lot is riding on their software that won't hurt anyone.

What a lot of people don't understand is that just because they don't think their position is important that if their job isn't done properly it is going to effect someone elses job.

What you are seeing as harmless is still creating a unsafe work place. As stated previously in my past post drug/alcohol use is a leading factor in job site accidents.

I work in the drug testing industry....you will not have to worry about this for much longer....the industry is leaning toward saliva testing....just like for DNA....this cannot be substituted or forged or otherwise gotten around like as we see here what can happen with urine....and no one has to handle urine. It does not test as far back as urine which I think is a plus because you are right, what some one does in their free time is their business. Who do we have to thank for the drug testing push in the workplace.....hello....alcohol companies!!!!

That Buchanan lady is a raving conservative psychopath bent on the brainwashed idea that stoners are the number 1 threat inside our country. She locked up Tommy Chong after using the DEA and other federal police agencies like her own personal smash and grab squad. Both her and Ashcroft were and will always be two of the most retarded conservative minds our lovely government has ever employed(appointed actually, we never got to dictate the status of their job like we do the people that hire these morons)

I forgot to mention my friend Shaun up there...

If you think the majority of Americans are sober in their daily lives you are ill informed. With all of the regular daily prescriptions like Buspar, Zoloft, Xanax, Vicodin, Percocet, Paxil, sinus medicine, blood thinners, medicines for acid reflux sundrome, restless leg syndrome, sleeping pill hangovers, alocohol hangovers, things we intake like energy drinks, caffiene, nicotine, truck loads of processed sugar, massive chemical preservatives, metric tons of flouride and aresenic and chlorine in our water supplies...

I can keep keep going if you can't figure it out for yourselves the point i'm making here...

Look up the definition for intoxication and apply it the every example I just cited. All of those chemicals and the like can inhibit proper brain function or heart function, even things as simple as too much sugar or caffiene can make someone perform less than their best, make them restless, unable to concentrate, not too mention the metabolic crash later into that persons work shift. Combine that with a hard worker who is already prescribed pain medication and you have someone performing at 50% all on legal substances that no one judges him on.

I'm not advocating we make sugar illegal, I'm merely saying open your eyes. The guy smoking pot after work, or before work because he does something mundane like write computer code is not hurting himself or the company, he probably works better stoned that hyped up on Starbucks. While i don't want my dentist taking bong rips before my root canal I think some judgement of relavence should be applied back at your opinion if you aren't going to take the full gambit of society and all it's accepted and unaccepted forms of intoxication into account. People are so willing to let our government babysit us so they don't have to think for themselves. You don't like the idea of people being high at your company then don't hire them or fire them if you catch them, that's your right if you own the business. I have employess under me and coworkers above me that smoke pot everyday and sorry but I have to say they are all the best employees here, they are hardworking, always on time, generally in a pleasent mood, helpful, fun to work with and interesting people. None of them are slackers or criminals. None of them have bad employment history or a bad record at this business.

There are very widespread misconceptions about pot smokers. They are losers, slackers, dirty, unmotivated, they all live in their moms basement, stupid, ignorant, slow, etc...These things have been portrayed in movies, comedies, just like other stereotypes that are cast on other groups in society, most of which are thrown to the wayside as mere satire and exaggeration..as should these. Seriously, don't be as stupid as a stoner in a movie in your judement of stoners in real life.

Truth my friend the difference in the examples that you posted and the use of illicit drugs is that those substances are legal to procure and to use.

Marijuana is just one of many that are not. The article that we are talking about is no different than someone selling a product designed to defeat a security system at your home, business, or car. They in fact advertise its use to defeat urine drug screens. This is not the only item out there.

You can continue on all you want about marijuana and other drugs, but the plain simple fact remains. They are illegal. Until the law changes my position on them is not going to either.

I do not pretend to think that all users are as they are portrayed in the media that bombards us on a daily basis. However, I am not going to pretend that using these drugs is ok either. They are as simply put as anyone can say Illegal to use, sell, and to have.

Laws are not for us to pick and choose which we are going to obey and those we aren't. We're supposed to obey all of them not just those we want to.

You guys seem to forget that not all "drugs" they are testing for are illegal.

How 'bout the NJ company that decided to prohibit it's employees from smoking tobacco so that it could get cheaper rates on health insurance. How do you think they enforce this completely unjustified invasion of their employees privacy, hmm ??

And all you people who think that "just because it's illegal" is a good enough reason and you don't need to question if it *should* be illegal, remember that it used to be illegal to help a slave escape his master too.

How 'bout alcohol, given the choice I'd much rather my kids bus driver was stoned than drunk, but guess which one they test for...

oh, and for you "emergency room " people, just because you see alot of harm from something doesn't mean it should be "banned" I am sure that all the heart surgeons think that most of what *I* consider "good food" should be illegal too (like red meat, real butter, whole milk, etc...)

If these two Men WERE NOT looking at doing REAL TIME in prison over these Ridiculous and Completely Frivolous Criminal charges, this story would be laughable!

If ya'll are reading these comments on your story You Are In My Prayers. MAY GOD BLESS PROTECT PROVIDE FOR & GUIDE YOUR ENTIRE FAMILIES. I LIFT YOU ALL UP IN PRAYER TO OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN TO BLESS YOU ALWAYS!!

In any civilization the citizenry will only be "policed" to a point before all out Revolt takes place in the face of overwhelming force just Because People ARE Endowed With Certain Inalienable Rights Given By THE CREATOR & Can NOT Be Taken Away By ANY Man.

...just a thought & A PRAYER:)

If these two Men WERE NOT looking at doing REAL TIME in prison over these Ridiculous and Completely Frivolous Criminal charges, this story would be laughable!

If ya'll are reading these comments on your story You Are In My Prayers. MAY GOD BLESS PROTECT PROVIDE FOR & GUIDE YOUR ENTIRE FAMILIES. I LIFT YOU ALL UP IN PRAYER TO OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN TO BLESS YOU ALWAYS!!

In any civilization the citizenry will only be "policed" to a point before all out Revolt takes place in the face of overwhelming force just Because We As People ARE Endowed With Certain Inalienable Rights.

Scott,
Companies testing for tobacco are not firing employees for smoking, but are offering a lower insurance rate to those who do not smoke. The only way to prove you don't smoke is to take the test. New Jersey I beleive is a right to work state. Which means that if you don't want to work for that company you don't have to work there. It also gives the employer the right to make conditions of employment. discrimination laws do not protect smokers right to employment. While I do not agree with this there is a steady trend within our society of pushing for cigarettes to be included in the same category as illicit drugs. At the moment many companies who are testing for tobacco are not yet releasing employees who fail or refuse to test, they just get the higher rate of insurance. However, this is not on the standard drug test, but a seperate test altogether.

As for your Son's bus driver. Federal guidelines dictate that they are tested for alcohol as well as for illegal drugs.
Just goes to show that some folks are unaware what someone subjected to the DOT rules have to go through if they don't deal with it on a daily basis. This isn't your fault as I deal with this law on a daily basis so I have to be aware of it. I am sure there are things that go on with your own job that I wouldn't have a clue what you are dealing with on a daily basis as well. No one can know everything now can they?

zippy those certain inalienable rights do not include the right to commit crime, conspiracy to commit crime, or to aide in the commission of a crime. Which is what these two guys were doing.

Now, if the device were marketed as a sex toy and someone was ingenious enough to be able to figure a way to use or modify it for illicit use I would be against the fact that these two were put up on charges. As it is they broke the law with their marketing practice and are now paying the price. Just as if I were to break a law and get caught I would have to face the music as well. Again, we can not just break a law because we don't agree with it and expect that there would be no form of discipline for it. So, if you think about it these two are being found guilty of their own stupidity. Perhaps they should have consulted a lawyer prior to marketing.

The charge is Conspiracy!!! The problem and why weed is still illegal is simply that there is no way to test it sooner then 30 days or so. Meaning on Monday you can't tell whether someone got high Saturday night or Monday morning or 3 days ago or 3 weeks ago unlike Alcohol which they can tell for the first few hours. then it goes away. imagine if they didn't have that test... if they could only tell if you had a drink in the last 6 weeks or so. then what?
"Have you had a drink tonight?" would become,"In the last 2 months have you had anything to drink...now think real hard" is my point getin through??
You people have to also remember that Cali is a NO funky sex state as well. No butt sex no hummers no fuzzrubbing whether same sex or not. so it doesn't surprise me one bit really I feel bad for the guys who's Co it was I love the name too Wizzonator(ROFLMAO) anyhue,
Peace to you in all you do!

How does that strike you guys who say "well, they should pay 'cause it was illegal"

How would you feel if you got arrested for having oral sex *with your spouse* and someone came around and said "well it's illegal, you should be punished"

Or how about Rosa Parks, it was illegal for her to sit in the front of the bus, but it wasn't wrong, and because she had the courage to do it (or more likely was just pissed off enough to) we no longer have that crap.

If you people don't start recognizing that just because someone managed to get a law passed it *doesn't* mean you have to follow it from a moral or ethical level (and in some instances you shouldn't)

Oh, and as for bus drivers, does that mean they can't drink *ever* or they just can't show up at work drunk ??

If the alcohol test didn't work right away would you suggest we go back to prohibition ??

Also, there are lots of really bad laws that the majority have supported, still doesn't make them right (i.e. just because tobacco smokers are being persecuted more and more doesn't make it right)

AWESOME! Now lets take a run at head shop owners. After spending 23 years as a police officer, I have never seen a bong used for any other purpose than smoking marijuana.
Keep up the GOOD work.

I have been working for a rather large company for 12 yrs.I make good money,have a family of 4 and a great wife.I have 2 kids in college and 2 heading the same way.My wife and I have been going for walks on Friday nights and smoking a joint for the last 20yrs. I would much rather do that then get drunk. If I had my way i would do away with alcohol(witch kills thousands of people a year) and replace it with weed. 10yrs ago we started random drug testing at work,9yrs ago we stoped. We where losing to many good people,all to weed. Now we just test when your hired.If you are doing hard drugs it will show at some point.When are we going to wake up. All the money we are wasting in testing and jail time is not worth it. Then you get a story like this one,what about guns. Are we going to start charging gun companys for their product being used to kill people. This country is just getting worse. Day after day they find a way to take another right from us. Its time for us to start taking it back,time to take a stand. We need a country wide 1 day strike. We need to stop letting the few control the many before its to late. Soon they will be telling us what to do and when to do it. WAKE UP PEOPLE WE ARE SLOWLY LOSING EVERYTHING.WHEN IS IT GOING TO STOP.

I know it is hard to believe, but we all do drugs. The only difference is that we do them under different circumstances. With proper guidance and administration, beneficial results can be obtained.

By creating an environment filled with dogma and ignorance, we encourage experimentation when deception has been discovered. If a young person desires firsthand experience, that desire will be fulfilled. If a supervised and guided path is not available, then a clandestine avenue is the only option. The negative consequences are only magnified in that environment.

Attempts to provide examples of the detrimental affects caused by drug abuse should be made often. If all reasonable efforts have not discouraged the curiosity, a medically supervised experience should be provided. We have to trust after all consideration, with the knowledge gained from their experience, people can make correct decisions to become happy, useful, nurturing human beings.

Given the opportunity, most abusers of drugs would be willing to perform some useful service. There will always be a section of society that is unwilling to actively participate in mutually beneficial functions. Some of them will want a medicated existence. If they're not provided that medication, they will obtain it in whatever depraved manner necessary. They will not be deprived. Attempting to deprive them by incarceration is expensive and unproductive. It would be more frugal and humane to satisfy their addiction and guide them to productive service. The truth is out there.

Two stories: Five years ago, I didn't do ANY drugs, was in the search for a job, went on some interviews. Went to a party one night, took a couple hits off a joint for the first time since high school, Monday morning I get a call from one of the jobs I interviewed with and they decided to hire me! Yay, except for the fact I had to take a drug test. Now do you really think that me being a person who didn't use ANY drugs in ten years or so shouldn't have received that position simply because I took a couple hits off a joint for old time sake? Thank God I was able to buy the Whizzinator and I got the job.

Story two: Five years later, I am STILL at the same company. About a year and a half ago I started doing Heroin, yes, I too used to think of people who used this drug as dirty scumbags, and NEVER thought I would touch it. I had an injury and am in constant pain and HATE prescription pills and somewhere along the line was introduced to Heroin. Still, I would never tell anyone I use this because I think of a terrible picture in my head when I even say the word, but it helps me. In my department at work I am one of the top performing employees, I am NEVER late, always dependable, hardly ever call in sick and get better reviews than most people that don't use anything.

My point....who knows, form your own opinion...but these guys should not do PRISON time over this...that is ridiculous.